more (as if we needed it -

since NOTHING is going to be done) on the savagery we have perpetrated. yes, even on innocents (yes, some were terrorists, but SOME ARE INNOCENT). no matter what, torture as a rule DOESN'T WORK. if and that's a BIG IF people 'talk' because they are being tortured, chances are they are going to spew what they think YOU want to hear.

we are human beings. we have laws in place. we cannot turn our backs on the laws nor can we revert back to terrorism ourselves. we MUST STOP THIS AND WE MUST PUNISH THOSE WHO ARE GUILTY. and by those i don't mean some private or corporal somewhere. i mean the bush kingdom. all of 'em. they should be brought up on charges immediately and punished accordingly (lock them up forever and throw away the key)
CIA Played Larger Role In Advising Pentagon
Harsh Interrogation Methods Defended
By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer

A senior CIA lawyer advised Pentagon officials about the use of harsh interrogation techniques on detainees at Guantanamo Bay in a meeting in late 2002, defending waterboarding and other methods as permissible despite U.S. and international laws banning torture, according to documents released yesterday by congressional investigators.

Torture "is basically subject to perception," CIA counterterrorism lawyer Jonathan Fredman told a group of military and intelligence officials gathered at the U.S.-run detention camp in Cuba on Oct. 2, 2002, according to minutes of the meeting. "If the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong."

The document, one of two dozen released by a Senate panel investigating how Pentagon officials developed the controversial interrogation program introduced at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002, suggests a larger CIA role in advising Defense Department interrogators than was previously known. By the time of the meeting, the CIA already had used waterboarding, which simulates drowning, on at least one terrorism suspect and was holding high-level al-Qaeda detainees in secret prisons overseas -- actions that Bush administration lawyers had approved.

The new evidence, along with hours of questioning of former Pentagon officials at a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday, shed light on efforts by top aides to then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to research and reverse-engineer techniques used by military survival schools to prepare U.S. service members for possible capture by hostile forces. ..........

this isn't really news

we know about it. we've known about it awhile. we either ignore it or deny it. we don't care. it's not US it's happening to. yet let someone else do it to our sons and daughters and mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers. we're up in arms.

what WOULD be news is if someone was made accountable for these crimes. they ARE crimes.

Report Questions Pentagon Accounts

Officials Looked Into Interrogation Methods Early On

By Joby Warrick

Washington Post Staff Writer

A Senate investigation has concluded that top Pentagon officials began assembling lists of harsh interrogation techniques in the summer of 2002 for use on detainees at Guantanamo Bay and that those officials later cited memos from field commanders to suggest that the proposals originated far down the chain of command, according to congressional sources briefed on the findings.

The sources said that memos and other evidence obtained during the inquiry show that officials in the office of then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld started to research the use of waterboarding, stress positions, sensory deprivation and other practices in July 2002, months before memos from commanders at the detention facility in Cuba requested permission to use those measures on suspected terrorists.

The reported evidence -- some of which is expected to be made public at a Senate hearing today -- also shows that military lawyers raised strong concerns about the legality of the practices as early as November 2002, a month before Rumsfeld approved them. .........

more evidence

NO ONE WILL DO ANY DAMN THING ABOUT

Army Buried Study Faulting Iraq Planning

By MICHAEL R. GORDON

WASHINGTON — The Army is accustomed to protecting classified information. But when it comes to the planning for the Iraq war, even an unclassified assessment can acquire the status of a state secret. That is what happened to a detailed study of the planning for postwar Iraq prepared for the Army by the RAND Corporation, a federally financed center that conducts research for the military.
After 18 months of research, RAND submitted a report in the summer of 2005 called “Rebuilding Iraq.” RAND researchers provided an unclassified version of the report along with a secret one, hoping that its publication would contribute to the public debate on how to prepare for future conflicts.
But the study’s wide-ranging critique of the White House, the Defense Department and other government agencies was a concern for Army generals, and the Army has sought to keep the report under lock and key. ........

picture: Charles Dharapak/Associated Press
An assessment of the planning for Iraq’s rebuilding was submitted in 2005 as criticism of the war was growing. President Bush countered such criticism that November with a speech on strategy.